Seoul Gazette - Hit UK politics podcast revives lost art of disagreement

Tony Blair's former spokesman and the ex-Conservative minister have made waves with "The Rest is Politics", proving disagreement can still be courteous in an increasingly polarised world.

Millions of listeners know the introduction, and its upbeat music, by heart.

Episodes last about 40 minutes, currently largely dedicated to the UK general election on July 4, with Labour favourite to win after 14 years of Conservative rule.

The June 18 edition also examined the political situation in France, with an analysis of President Emmanuel Macron's decision to call snap parliamentary elections, and the European football championships.

While the show tackles serious issues, the tone is often upbeat, with "Alastair" and "Rory" debating on first name terms, questioning and joking with each another.

The podcast, which launched in early 2022, is among the most listened to in the UK, with each episode downloaded around 600,000 times.

This month, there have been 13 million downloads -- mostly in the UK, but also in Australia, the United States and even Germany and France.

The show began when 67-year-old Campbell, spin doctor for Labour prime minister Tony Blair between 1997 and 2007, was contacted by a friend who suggested he start a podcast with a Conservative.

"I've spent most of my life trying to destroy the Conservative party! And I don't really have many Conservative friends," he responded.

He ended up changing his mind.

"The debate had become so polarised, with so much anger, that (I thought) maybe it could work, a podcast where I debate with a Conservative but we don't get too annoyed", he told AFP in French.

He still needed to find a Conservative. His social media followers recommended Rory Stewart, whom he had exchanged views with during the Brexit campaign which both men opposed.

- 'Dangerously populist' -

With UK elections fast approaching, the political experts are making multiple shows a week.

Eton and Oxford-educated Stewart, who tutored heir to the throne Prince William and his brother Prince Harry, explained the podcast's success as being down to "the dynamic between us".

The former diplomat and Conservative MP, 51, was minister for international development under Theresa May, and challenged Boris Johnson for the Tory leadership in 2019, before quitting politics.

"I believe in tradition and history and monarchy. And he (Campbell) is a very extreme left-wing republican," he said.

"People like seeing the world through two different opposing lenses, like the idea of multiple perspectives.

"He (Stewart) is very 'posh'," added Campbell, a former political editor at the Daily Mirror newspaper. "He's a friend of the king. It's truly a world that I don't know."

But the two also have things in common. "We're both very worried about populism. We both agree that Britain should be getting much closer to the European Union," said Stewart.

They want to see an end to the current Tory government.

"It's become dangerously populist," said Stewart, who said he was "not likely" to vote Conservative.

Campbell is more matter-of-fact. "They're rubbish," he said.

"Our motto is to disagree agreeably," he went on. "There is only one time when we have truly argued -- over Northern Ireland."

Stewart is particularly proud of the episode in which he interrogated his co-host about the 2003 Iraq War, which continues to cast a shadow over both Blair's and Campbell's legacy.

As a diplomat, Stewart was appointed a deputy governor in southern Iraq in the chaotic aftermath of Saddam Hussein's defeat, as Blair and Campbell battled questions about the justification for war.

After the elections, his and Campbell's schedule is unlikely to get much lighter. Much like rockstars, they will be recording episodes in concert halls and heading to Australia for a live tour.

Campbell also publishes books to explain politics to children. He believes democracy will only be saved through education.

Stewart, also a published author who now teaches at Yale in the United States, would like to "help his country" but does not see himself returning to politics.

"I truly tried during 10 years, but it was a horrible experience," he said.

U.Hyeon--SG